I’ve been getting reports from readers who think they’ve been banned by Moneygram from buying money orders at Walmart. Apparently frequent churners have been getting “transaction could not be completed” messages when attempting to buy money orders.
This usually happens when they try to purchase over $1,000 worth, which prompts them to provide a driver’s license. When the cashier enters this information, the transaction is effectively blocked.
Who is being targeted (if at all)?
At this point, we don’t know exactly who is being targeted. But the people who have reported this to me have purchased at least $10,000 per week in the past.
I’ve been out of the country, not to mention taking a break from manufactured spending, so I haven’t had a chance to test this out myself. But clearly, if someone buying $10,000 per week is getting banned, I’m probably not safe either.
A possible explanation
Another explanation for a possible ban is that Walmart cashiers may have reported these transactions as suspicious. There are two options when processing a money order purchase: One option gets used when customers are buying $3,000+ worth of money orders. It prompts the cashier to collect identifying information from the customer.
The other option is essentially a “suspicious transaction report”. I remember back when Walmart made us fill out paper forms, on occasion, an inexperienced cashier accidentally handed me the “suspicious transaction” report.
Even a couple of months ago, a new cashier at my go-to store accidentally picked the wrong option, prompting her colleague to override her. But I have no doubt that cashiers have probably reported me (intentionally or otherwise). And if that’s the case, then I won’t be surprised if I’m on Moneygram’s banned buyer list.
Final thoughts
All of this is speculation and we don’t know whether Moneygram has really cracked down on manufactured spending or not. But it wouldn’t surprise me if they finally did. I did reach out to a contact at Walmart corporate who wasn’t able to confirm any widespread policy and speculated that it may be location-specific.
Have you experienced these issues when trying to buy money orders at Walmart? I would love to hear from you in the comment section.
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I’m one of the affected, for the past few weeks now. I tried again after Sept 1 just in case it was a monthly maximum, but still no dice. I’ll keep trying each month through early 2020 & report if anything changes.
That sucks! What amount have you tried to buy that got blocked?
I’ve tried 3x&999.12, 2x$999.12, and another time an odd amount between $1000 and $2000. All three failed.
FYI it is not location-specific as I’ve tried at a few different locations in different states.
Mike, Very sorry to hear that. What happens if u try to purchase less than $1,000 per transaction?
No problem buying less than $1,000, because they don’t take ID for that. When I try to buy more than $1000, they input my ID info in full and just as they’re ready for my payment, the whole transaction wipes itself out and gives the “could not be completed” message.
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@Mike, really sorry to hear about this – hope this is temporary situation for you. We do not have any DP on this Do you have any thoughts on what could have caused it? Some statistics that Moneygram could look at:
1) Average MO $ purchased per day
2) Average MO $ purchased per month
3) Average MO $ purchased per year
4) Lifetime MO purchased
Every money order transaction can be broken into 3 types based on dollar amount:
1) $0.01 to $1,000 including fees. No id required
2) $1.000 to $3,000 including fees: Id required, no social needed
3) $3,000 to $8,000 id + social required
It would help to know if all people who got banned largely do #3 type transaction. If anyone got banned for doing only #2, that will help clarify this case.
@Mike, Please do update us as to whether you are able to get back to doing MOs. Wishing you the best.
Good questions. Would love to know the same.
For most of the year, I was doing #2 transactions ($999.12×2, 4x per day several days per week). Starting late Aug when Simon started selling $1k VGC, I started doing #3 transactions ($999.12×4, 2x per day, several days per week with ID & SSN required). Occasionally (perhaps 4 times YTD) I have had a WM rep input ID information when I bought a single $999.12 MO. I assumed these were MSARs being filled out. So in my case, I figure it’s either the number of MSARs which revealed my single-$999.12 transactions, the YTD volume, or the number of SSN (>3k) transactions.
@mike Thanks much for sharing! If a rep asks you an id for $1000 MO or less, you could very well decline the transaction and thus avoid an MSAR being filled out, right? Also, when you are doing a #2 or #3 type transaction which does require giving an id, would there be a way to figure out if an MSAR is being filled out? Does it take much longer than usual for example?
Yes I could have declined the sub-$1k ID-requested transactions, but this was at a WM I go to every so often and wanted to show them (actually just one particular employee who does this) that I wasn’t shady/afraid of sharing ID information. Perhaps that backfired.
Since last November when all >$1k WM MO transactions began requiring an ID, I haven’t known of any way to be sure whether an MSAR is being filled out on #2 or #3 transactions. I can say that the vast majority of my $2k/$3k/$4k transactions have been done at a couple of locations that know full well what I’m doing, know a handful of others that are doing it too, and where staff trusts us and I’m confident isn’t concerned or filing MSARs on purpose.
@ Mike: MSAR combined with the volume of #3 (ssn) transactions may have triggered something an exception in Moneygram. The overall volume could have done it too, however, since they only recently started asking for ids for more than $1,000 it is unlikely to happen so quickly. Have you been doing Walmart Bill pay apart from MOs? If so, does that still work for you? Since Bill pay is done via Check Free Pay and not Moneygram, perhaps that avenue may still be left, although it is more limited than MOs.
can you switch IDs? Try some other form of ID? Passport or Global Entry ID. Which has no address – so you can provide a diff address by hand
@B: Passports, state id and driver’s license all link to the same person. If not, that would be an easy way to abuse the system from Moneygram’s perspective.
@Mike: Perhaps you could ask the friendly walmart reps if the MSAR reports can be corrected as they would agree it was written in error? This would probably require a senior level manager who is sympathetic to your situation. Even then, it remains to be seen if Moneygram provides an opportunity for Walmart employees to update a previously written MSAR. Am really sorry for your situation, its not fun when us PointChasers get placed in the same bucket as money launderers. Hopefully, with the help of this community, you are able to resolve the situation for good.
Hi Sudhir – I’ve found your comments on this post to be very helpful, detailed and insightful. Thank you! One question…. Have you been able to glean whether its scenario 2 or 3 that causes the shutdown? I’ve read through the comments but can’t really figure it out.
1) $0.01 to $1,000 including fees. No id required
2) $1.000 to $3,000 including fees: Id required, no social needed
3) $3,000 to $8,000 id + social required
Sudhir – your comments have been helpful. I’ve read through the comments but haven’t been able to glean whether scenario 2 is ok if someone has been banned.
So iIf someone has been blocked, it seems scenario 1 is still ok and scenario 3 definitely isn’t ok. But does anyone know whether scenario 2 is still ok post-ban?
1) $0.01 to $1,000 including fees. No id required
2) $1.000 to $3,000 including fees: Id required, no social needed
3) $3,000 to $8,000 id + social required
Had no issues this weekend. I just do $2000 per transaction even though I’ve got the $1K Simon Mall cards just because I didn’t like providing the extra info. Usual do $6K per weekend: WM grocery on Sat & Sun and WM on Sun.
Where are you located? My local WM in DC said the printer is down, this is the 3rd week down. I am suspicious now.
Sounds suspicious…but then again, it is WM. Wouldn’t surprise me if they took 3 weeks to fix a printer.
I’ve been to a couple of WMs whose MO printers were down for multiple months before coming alive again. Could be they were dragging their heels trying to thwart MSers?
Sounds like incompetence, to be honest. Because they could just ask to see our cards and reject us.
Ric, the same thing happens to me in NJ. There is one WM that just doesn’t want to sell M.O., and has had a sign on the wall for months that the M.O. machine is out of order.
Sorry, just saw this. I’m in Memphis. And re: the MO machine being down, I know at the WM grocery I frequent there’s really only 1 person who knows how to do anything with it. So if she’s on vacation or just out, it doesn’t get fixed. One time the ribbon was so faint the bank complained and it took weeks to get new ribbons ordered.
Planning to do another $6K this weekend. Will report back.
It’s odd because I went to a WM the other day and they told me their machine has been down for two weeks. How does that happen? I wondered if it was a deterrent.
I’ve only started going heavy in the last couple months bc of the Simon cards where they’ve been collecting my info. Doing about $30k per month in mostly $8k or $4k per day for two months. I took a 2 week break while I was on vacation but did $4k yesterday and $8k today with no problems. I’m in Coastal Georgia.
From what we were told, Money Order sent reps out to different stores (pseudo audit) and asked for the names of the top MO purchasers. This articles provides context to what we heard.
(One agent stated MO fined their store, but we do not buy that as the info was too sketchy.) That said out of no where a number of the clerks who know us are now hesitant and apprehensive.
We are not at the high end of the frequency or volume scale; on occasion we ramp up around a particular promotion – and this appears to be large based on individual perceptions of customers, as we got lumped into heavy MO category by someone knew who barely knows how to operate a register let alone understand the differences between MS and actual bad actor activity.
Are you comforable sharing what state this occurred in? I’m in California and there was a point in late August where one particular clerk became more apprehensive and caused most of the rest of the staff/store manager to be so as well.
I only got blocked one time. That was because early on in the day, I bought $1900 worth of money orders. When I got blocked, I was trying to buy $4K more at a different Walmart, which put me over the daily limit of $5K per day. Since I got blocked, I tried reducing it to $3K, but the system would still not allow the transaction to go through. The next day, I went back to the same Walmart where I had just been blocked, and there were no problems. I’m in Arizona.
I was one that got locked out last week. When the original shutdowns occurred in the spring, I reduced my purchases to $1000 per day to avoid having to show an ID. Over the past month, I’ve ramped it up to $2000 every three days. My shutdown occurred when I attempted to make a $3000 purchase. Immediately there after, I tried a $2000 purchase, and it too was blocked.
The associates in the store that I frequent know me well, and know what they are doing. While they certainly could’ve hit an incorrect key, they would not have done so intentionally in my opinion.
I have now resolved myself to $1000 per visit purchases in order to fly under the radar.
Shut down in San Diego. I was doing larger volumes and had one cashier tell me she wasn’t comfortable doing it any longer.
Were you shut down via the pop-up banner, or simply by the associate telling you that she would not process your transactions anymore?
NOT Good!! Too many peeps doing MO’S and Walmart. Simons promo till end of October prob didn’t help.
It looks like some people may be linking this ban with the $8,000 limit that is enforced every 24 hours. Whenever you hit the daily limit within 24 hours, just reduce the number of MO you are getting today, and it will go through. Another workaround: If you have a regular schedule of going to walmart the same day, try going 5 minutes later than yesterday so today’s MOs dont get counted with yesterdays transactions for the 8k limit!
I actually never even came close to hitting $8000 in a 24 hour. My volume was generally very low, but frequent.
It has nothing to do with the $8K/24 hours limit since most people here are not hitting anywhere near that number. However there are plenty that are doing at least $2K/day which prompts the cashier to enter ID information. I think this is just a WM general ban sweep for those that they have collected ID information (aka …those that do >$1K transactions) in the past. We’ll know more information in the upcoming days.
My husband and I started doing larger volume MO’s when the Simon Mall promo came out. We have two friendly Walmarts nearby but one of them seems to have really amped up their security/practices – requesting an actual social security card (not just number) and in the last 24 hours, both my husband and I have had MSAR forms completed on us. And yes, we actually know that we had MSAR forms completed as the respective cashiers asked us to complete the personal details section of the forms!
Ariana (or anyone else) – I have a couple of questions: what should my husband and I expect since we’ve both had MSAR forms filled out – do we wait and see and maybe nothing? Do we try and buy a smaller load of gift cards between us in case we can’t get MO’s anymore? What would you do in this situation?
So this shutdown issue has me a bit concerned, and it gets me wondering what I would do if I was shut down – like many of you I am making use of the Simon Mall promotion, though no SM is close to me so I have been buying gift cards in large batches, then liquidating in small batches. If I were shut down at the beginning of one of those cycles, I would be left with $20K in gift cards. Is there another way to liquidate if you’re shut out by MoneyGram (even if its more expensive)? Should I be concerned about the risk associated with a large carrying balance?
Sounds like you can still go <$1000 MOs. So, just slower liquidation.
Do you have grocery stores near you that do Western Union? That’s another option.
I addressed that in a post a couple of years ago. Might be time for a revamp.
Can you link to that article Ariana? I can’t locate it
Sure: https://www.pointchaser.com/what-to-do-if-walmart-stops-accepting-gift-cards-for-money-order-purchases/
It needs a revamp. I’ll work on it and republish next week.
Since the Simon Mall thing I have been doing around $50k/mo. I do both the 4K and 3k transactions. If I don’t feel comfortable with the Walmart rep I only do $1k. As of yesterday no issue. But I spread my volume over about 8 Walmart’s.
However, yesterday Hancock Whitney sent me a certified letter telling me in 14 days they were closing my bank account. It was one of two banks I use for MS. And it was the lower volume bank. I only pushed about $30 k total through that bank in the last two months. Prior to that (prior to Simon) I was probably less than $10k/mo with this bank without issue for over a year.
Oh well, if you’re not pushing the envelope you’re leaving money on the table!
It is not going to matter since this issue seems to be spreading by the day that I don’t really think its based on cashiers filing SARs in the past. I think its just WM and/or MG doing a general sweep for those that have bought many >$1K MOs transactions and logging to see how much volume has been doing in a certain period of time and determining if they want to ban you. You going to 8 different Walmarts doesn’t really matter since if you are doing >$1K MOs in each of those WMs they have to capture your ID information which gets stored in a nationwide WM database. They can easily ban find you and ban you from the system.
I wish it was just limited to the individual WM store if they were the ones that suspected you and banned you even if it is a favorite store it would be the lesser of the 2 evils since u can always try to find new WMs. For now we just need to collect more data to find out what the datapoints are and hopefully it is just a temporary ban.
There is a reason going to multiple WMs can help. If this ban is activated by a SAR, because one particular cashier is suspicious from seeing you two to three times per week, this will mitigate.
I understand why spreading out your purchases at multiple WMs can be used to “mask” your purchases and I am not saying it is wrong and I try to do that too. But what I am saying in this case since your DL information is kept in a database nationwide whenever you buy >$1K MOs it is a way for WM to keep track of you. Spreading ur purchases over 8 WMs doesn’t really matter in this case as you have experienced since the ban is not a single store ban policy. Had it been just a store location ban that would sucks still but not the end of the world.
I don’t believe the ban is due to any number of SARs that we think might have been written up against us. I think WM is just doing a sweep of all MO purchases that they have deem as excessive and banning those DLs information that is associated with that name. If we poll the audience of those that got ban you will see those that were banned for having done say $15K/mo and those that have done like $50K/mo.
Yes I understood your point the first time. It was quite obvious. I was making an alternate point for an alternate theory.
All any of us has at this point is “I think”….. We all have our opinions of the potential cause. I’m covering my bases on at least one potential.
It won’t cover your scenario but it will help mine.
What credit card(s) are you putting all that spend on?
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Have any of you had a Walmart rep fill out a SAR? Is it possible for them to fill one without telling you, or do you have to sign something ? Does it require you to give your id, or is it possible for them to do it for $1,000 and less MO as well? To the best of our knowledge, not having too many SARs filled out and not giving out your social too many times may be your best bet to keeping your Moneygram access,
Every time I was doing 4k in WM they asked for ID and then SSN.
SARs are supposed to be completed without the customer’s knowledge. If anyone asks you for info to fill it out, they’ve violated the procedure to fill out the form because it’s not supposed to alert the “suspicious” customers they are filing complaints about. Little surprise the morons who think what you’re doing is ‘suspicious’ eff it up.
I can’t imagine moneygram dynamically updating their software in response to the recent higher volume from Simon. More likely, they are were given a list of people who are doing high volume at each Walmart , who were then manually blacklisted. The latter is way more easier to implement. Can anyone find out if there was a scheduled audit at your local Walmart Moneycenter recently? That could also explain the 2-3 week delay that you see between the first ban and now.
It wouldn’t be hard for WM or MG to find out who was doing higher MO volumes since they require you to enter your ID information. We can’t get a firm confirmation on who is triggering the ban whether it is WM or MG. We don’t even know for sure if it was WM or MG that implemented the >$1K MO purchase prompt on the screens.
Based on what Im hearing, this ban starts with Walmart audit team visiting the money center. Walmart is carrying this on behalf of Moneygram, who are in turn responding to government regulations and perceived business liability.
Total volume of money orders obtained in the recent months seems to be the criteria for the ban much more than SAR reports or entering social etc. If this was 100% true, then the people who are not affected can continue doing money orders until the next Walmart audit.
Ask other people who regularly frequent the same Walmart as you go to. I bet you’ll see that all the bans happened the day the auditors come in. It’s not that the system counts until you reached some max MO and suddenly bans you mid-transaction.
Are you saying that no one can buy >$1K MOs at this point? Not sure what you mean by “people who are not affected”. Where did you hear about the Walmart audit team? I have not read any stories related to a Walmart audit team
You need to give more than “based on what I’m hearing”, to have any credibility here.
What is the data? Without that you’re just another guy with an opinion.
@ Eric: Am saying that people who are blocked at this time cannot buy MOs > $1k. They can only do single transaction without id. My understanding is that every Walmart has regular audits. The customer service reps don’t have access to the the auditors, but they usually know when they are going to come next time. When the auditors come, they go through transaction logs, videos, financial records etc and recommend a change in store policy to the manager. They are also the ones that block people from doing certain transactions. I’d recommend talking to friendly walmart reps and asking when the last audit happened. Then talk to any people who you know got blocked. You will probably see that all the people the day the auditers came.
@Kirk: I knew when the audit is going to happan at a local walmart before it happened. The audit is not just moneygram related but storewide – its a walmart process.Then I knew the people who got blocked the same day after the auditers left.
Ask around your local walmart as to when the auditers came. Talk to anyone you know who got blocked. Hoping we will see the same pattern playing out everywhere.
I was doing about $15K per month when got banned, and never more than $2K per day. It’s all about the suspicious transaction report that gets filed. The cashiers wouldn’t tell you they were doing it, but I could see them typing away on their computer before they entered the ID info. I was able to look at their keystrokes and figure out that whatever they were typing included the word “gift card.” Every cashier at the store I went to did it. Once I knew to look for it, it became very obvious. So if they’re not looking at your ID, but are pecking away at the keyboard, the report is being filed on you.
I have been going hard and heavy since the Simon VGC promotion with the $1,000 cards. I tried going today and I must be banned as it wouldn’t work. I doubt it was WM because the rep that I go to all the time was surprised and she even tried again. I first tried to buy 4 $999.12 MO’s then she had me try 2 and it didn’t work.
My wife (who just started last week) was able to get 4 $999.12 money orders so definitely this has to do with being on some list as she could get 4 of them ok. I’d guess she will get banned soon so she will go hard and heavy until she can’t.
I will try doing one for $999 tomorrow without ID and see if it works.
That’s interesting. Do you normally stick to ~$4k per day? How much are you buying a week?
Yes, I was doing $4k a day ever since the Simon Mall promotion started. About 5 times per week. At least $20k per week. I figured it was better to go hard and heavy while we can vs. “going slow” like some suggest. The strange thing is I know several people that also are hitting it really hard doing $4k per day a few times a week and they aren’t banned yet.
My guess is that they Moneygram has some hard limit once you hit the dollar limit it triggers a block. My wife is doing $4k (4 for $999.12) several times a week and so far so good but I assume she will probably get banned soon too so she is hitting it hard while she can.
It’s definitely a Moneygram issue and not Walmart because the friendly cashiers actually tried to tell me to try a lower amount. Something triggers on their side and doesn’t tell them what. Only that it won’t process. You can still do one $999.12 transaction (below $1,000) without an ID and it works with no problem as you don’t have to give your ID. It’s the ID that triggers the block/ban.
Seriously bummed out over this but I assume that the gravy train of MS via VGC’s will end at most WM’s. Not because of WM but I think it’s on Moneygram’s side.
I really don’t think it takes much for WM to find out who to ban for IDs. For now we just gotta lay low. This definitely changes the amount of Simons I will buy if any more going forward.
Well, I got blocked. in Minneapolis. I did about ten $4K transactions in August, On Monday I did another $4K with ID and SS# (first time in nearly a month) without a problem and the next day I was blocked. The cashier read an ominous message that says it won’t tell the customer why they were blocked and that no questions would be answered. I plan to try a different Walmart tomorrow.
I wouldn’t bother but its up to you. Sounds like the ID ban rollout occurred sometime on late 9/16 or 9/17. The database is probably shared nationwide so unless u wanna risk burning another location, I would probably lay low for now. There are enough data points of those that have tried various locations and received the same ban of “unable to process” message on the CSR screen.
Hi Guys, Is bill payment connected to MO purchase? is bill payment not cheaper than MO? $1.5 < 0.88×4?
@Dave: Walmart’s Bill-pay is administered by CheckFreePay, which is different than Moneygram. Like money orders, bill-pay is indeed another way to liquidate your gift cards. Most Walmart bill pays cost around $1.5, however you will find some (like Business cards) that cost as much as $3. Whether it is cheaper than money orders depends on the amount you pay per transaction. For a typical bill-pay that costs $1.5, if you are able to pay a bill of at-least $1,704.5, you are breaking even with money order fee. From a bill payment of $1,705 to $4, 000, you are better off doing the bill pay.
There are however several challenges of doing bill pay as compared to money orders. For example:
1) For a dollar amount > $1,000, bill pay now requires you to enter your social.
2) Some credit card companies may also ban you for doing bill pay.
3) There are also monthly limits you are subjected to per id, per biller etc.
Of course, in the wake of the moneygram bans, bill pay now seems to be an attractive option. Now that Walmart wants to crack down on money orders, I don’t expect bill pay to be easy going forward . Sooner or later they will block /severely limit bill pay access to those who are banned from moneygram.
Bill pay is cheaper but can also get you shut down faster. Happened to me.
Hi Ariana and Sudhir, Thank you for your response. They are very helpful. Ariana, are you saying bank shut you down credit card account or walmart shut down your bill payment account? I cannot afford chase accounts being shut down. I did lots of bill pay this summer. I am sweating now.
Credit card company will shut you down.
Barclay shut down my credit cards for using bill pay.
Anyone think that this is just a temporary ban just to slow down the amount of MOs being issued the last 2 months? Hopefully in a month or 2 that we would get unbanned. Of course if we do get unbanned, I would be taking it much slower.
As temporary as all of the other 1-2 month bans.
What does that mean? Are you being sarcastic meaning that it will be permanent ban?
I’ve heard rumors to try passport with a different address or go get a new DMV ID. I’ll be getting a new ID day in fact. I’ve been banned since April with the first wave of folks. There were maybe 1-5 people on flyertalk experiencing at this time. Good to see more people with the same problem, maybe we’ll find a proper workaround.
I have been to 4 Walmart stores in the past couple of days. I am being told that this is coming from Moneygram, who I presume is following orders from the US Government. Some locations would only take a debit card with my name on it.
There is no question in my mind that the volume of Simon Gift Cards purchased since they offered the $1k quantity is what triggered this. For those of us who have been flagged, I believe we will no longer be able to redeem any more than $1K at Walmart, as any quantity over that requires ID and SS#. The walls keep closing down. ;-(
Sudhir – your comments have been helpful. I’ve read through the comments but haven’t been able to glean whether scenario 2 is ok if someone has been banned.
So if someone has been blocked, it seems scenario 1 is still ok and scenario 3 definitely isn’t ok. But does anyone know whether scenario 2 is still ok post-ban?
1) $0.01 to $1,000 including fees. No id required
2) $1.000 to $3,000 including fees: Id required, no social needed
3) $3,000 to $8,000 id + social required
Sudhir – your comments have been helpful. I’ve read through the comments but haven’t been able to glean whether scenario 2 is ok if someone has been banned.
So iIf someone has been blocked, it seems scenario 1 is still ok and scenario 3 definitely isn’t ok. But does anyone know whether scenario 2 is still ok post-ban?
1) $0.01 to $1,000 including fees. No id required
2) $1.000 to $3,000 including fees: Id required, no social needed
3) $3,000 to $8,000 id + social required
I was just shut down as of today 9/24..so the shutdowns are still happening. System won’t process transaction.
I’ve been going hard doing $8,000/day (the max) for 50 days straight with the $1,000 Simon cards.
Very friendly cashiers, I don’t think they are why I was shut down.
I’m honestly impressed with your effort J. $8K a day for 50 days – wow! Well done… You must need a vacation 😉
So there are a number of people who have been banned and that number seems to be growing. Anyone ever been banned and later ok to do more? In other words, does anyone have experience with the ban going away at some point?
I tried to do a $699 MO today at WM today. They asked for id. After entering they said the system stated “cannot process transaction “. No further info given. Went to another WM and asked for $499 MO. No ID and no problem.
Have they changed the system to ask id for over $500 now? Or was this WM a one off? Looks like I’m banned now! Was ok yesterday.
No the system does not require ID starting at $500. There seems to be some zealous WM CSRs that are trying to be play hero and manually prompting the screen for ID. There have been many DPs including myself that <$1K MOs do NOT require ID unless manually prompted.
It is also possible that the CSM at the MC at that WM is telling their employees to ask for ID at certain limits and to manually enter that information regardless if the system does not prompt it.
No there is no requirement for ID at $500. It could be a CSM at the MC asking their employees to ask for ID at some certain threshold. The CSR would have to manually enter your ID stuff since it is not automatically prompted.
No, I know the CSR at that site. She did not do it on her own. The screen prompted her. She read it off the screen then asked for id.
Not sure if it is just that store or not. Did you do a transaction today over $500?
I got a $999.12 MO at walmart yesterday (Thursday 9/26) and no ID was required.
Thanks! Good! There is hope! I’ll hold off on the milk.
Same here, they asked for ID even for one $999.12. Once they submit the info the computer showed a “You have reached your limit” message. They told me that the management wants ID before any transaction and the ban is not WM is from MG.
This is bad…..very bad…..
I need to pour me a glass of milk so I can have something to cry into…
I hope not! I bought a $999 MO today and they didn’t ask for ID.
I got the pop up as of 9/24. My transactions are all type 3 according to @Sudhir Krishnan. 3x a week for several months. P2 my spouse also got the ban the same day.
I am not the same J as the person above who reported going 50 days in a row. Apologies for the duplicate handle.
I did reach out to a contact at Walmart corporate who wasn’t able to confirm any widespread policy and speculated that it may be location-specific.
Violated the cardinal first rule of fight club.
1. This isn’t fight club 2.) WM is aware of MS 3.) Getting a straight answer is better than speculation.
I’m more interested from a litigation perspective as to what can be done against WM And MG at this point. For some people, like living in the Bay Area with expensive rent, someone doing 5K for billpay or a money order is completely normal and mundane. To be a small business owner and require similar products is also unheard of. If they have those stated limits and want to ban people for using them, then why offer them at all? I’ve contacted a small business attorney who, at the least, said that a case could be made against WM and MG on any costs incurred and potential losses imposed due to the bans (think transport costs to get there just to be denied, private information that can be lost/leaked/misrepresented). Remember, these MSARs, if filed properly, are ending up at FINSEC and potentially the IRS, leading to uncomfortable questions and investigations. You might not know when they strike, but I’m sure you get flagged and then lag time dictates that you get investigated years later.
And for people going under 1K to avoid IDs – you do realize that is exactly the sort of behavior that MSARs are supposed to be filled out for? (namely, actions that try to prevent MSAR thresholds).
sub
Definitely it is a ban within MG. I stopped by several WMs in my area and they’re not asking for ID under $1,000. However, only one asked for it and the transaction didn’t go through. Now is a pain with all this ban because the easy part is gone, in my experience I have to drive too much now and I might consider other options.
I’d love an article on your other options Ric. Your advice and thoughts are always so helpful. My hubs has been banned and it’s only a matter of time before I am banned too. Also, I’ve asked the question in this comment thread but nobody responded – is the ban temporary or permanent?! I assume this isn’t the first ban of its kind. I’ve read comments that seem to suggest laying low for a couple of months is what banned people are doing (which gives the impression the ban is temporary) but nobody has said as much
Other options are more expensive, at least in my opinion. You can go to Western Union and pay $2 x $1,000 and they don’t allow GCs so I hate going and be rejected. Example of today: visited 3 WM’s and got 1 MO from one, visited 5 Giant and got 3 MOs, had to drive 50 miles and still have 3 more MOs to liquidate. As you can see is not worth it for me anymore. I might be able to get some GCs in Staples and Office Depot and load them up in my Bluebird or Serve, but how long will it last? The ban could be temporary, that’s what we all wish, time just will tell.
Thanks for your thoughts. I have a similar issue with travel and it not being worth the time/gas etc if I have to liquidate in such small denominations
A Walmart CSR told me today that she completed training and in the training she was told they were changing the system over at Walmart. She said after the changeover ids will be required for all money orders over $100.
That’s $100 not $1000 by the way.
No!!!! Any idea when the changeover will be?
I believe that a WM representative said this to the person above . BUT it seems to be the first anyone has heard of it (and on this thread). Considering that, I’m not worrying yet…
She didn’t know a time frame. Like MK said, this is the only data point out there that I am aware of as well. I believe she thinks she heard that in her training but she could have just heard something and interpreted it wrong.
But… this will not be a surprise to me if it comes to fruition.
Good to know. And just an update: I went to WM late last week and it appears I have not been banned…yet!
Gang, this ban is not likely to go away.This is the result of pressure on MoneyGram by our government. Our hobby is a strategy used for money laundering. Think about it. Why would MoneyGram want to limit your ability to purchase money orders? It was only a matter of time. I suspect the $1K Simon cards really forced the issue. Some of us hit it pretty hard.
Gang? We’re a gang now? Ok then. Can we call ourselves the “Manufactured Mafia”?
If not, I don’t want to be in your gang.
Also, what’s our secret handshake going to be?
Lol! It’s a colloquial term. Like saying “guys.”
Did $2K yesterday and $2K today, one at WM Grocery and the other at a regular WM. Friendly with CSRs at both locations. Neither had heard anything about a ban. I don’t do 2 x $999.12 but vary the amounts each time though it always totals exactly $2K. I do that more for me with my record keeping in case one goes missing or something. Taking it easy right now as I’ll be out of town for two weeks next month and want to be sure I’ve got everything covered while I’m away and won’t be stuck holding a bunch of GCs that I might not be able to cash out upon my return.
What city are you? It seems from Friends DPs that the ban is actually location specific and expanding. It might take a little bit to reach every state and city. What do you think?
I think that’s entirely possible. I’m in Memphis, as mentioned above.
I have been blocked from purchasing money orders >$1K. Today, for the first time ever, I tried to use Bill Pay at Walmart. They insisted I provide my SS#. Once I did, I was blocked. The system didn’t even ask what form of payment I was using, I was just blocked from using Bill Pay.
It is my understanding that Bill Pay is owned by Check Free, not Moneygram. Walmart is apparently sharing data between the two vendors.
My only option now is to purchase $999.12 MOs so I don’t have to use my SSN# I think my days of MS are numbered. ;-(
Some bill pays are handled by money gram and some by check-free pay. It depends on what bill you are paying.
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After reading all the comments I have been limiting my MO to under$1000 each. I can stop at 2 Walmart stores on the way home from work, and I have 2 other locations 20 minutes away either direction. But it sure is taking a lot of my time to do this!
You should give it a try at a non-regular WM store. I did and found out that I’m not banned, as I had assumed I would be. Better yet, I found another MS-friendly WM. 🙂
By that do you mean a WM Neighborhood Market or a Supercenter?
Just asking because there’s 0 Neighborhood Markets in my state.
Sorry, I meant to type “at a regular store.” I mostly buy WM’s at Neighborhood markets because the lines are shorter. But I did go to a Supercenter last week to see if I could buy a $1k+ money order or if the system had banned me. If they said I was banned, I knew I couldn’t return to the store and I didn’t care if it was a supercenter. Luckily, I’m not banned so I’ve returned to both locations for my MO runs.
Hi,
So I wanted to let you guys all know that the ban is NOT from Moneygram, even though it impacts MoneyGram transactions the bans are being put in place by WM Corporate. I spent probably 12 hours on the phone yesterday between WM, MoneyGram, my local store’s management etc.
Here’s my situation:
Until July I was flying low doing 2k here or there. Then once the 1k cards hit I ramped up and I’ve been doing 150k a month. If do 8k a day, 5 times a week give or take. In my area out of 10 WM only 2 are MS friendly which I worked with. Then about 3 weeks ago I went on vacation to California and MS’d at WM Neighborhood Market. I did a transaction with actually the assistant manager himself. Then the next day I went back and was told by CSM that no you can’t use those cards here for Money Orders. I said that’s really strange because the assistant store manager himself sold me them just yesterday. Seeing that he had walked by I asked her if she could check with him. Very irritatedly she said she would ask. She went away for 15 mins came back and told a cashier to process the transaction, but didn’t say a word to me. At this point the transaction was already set up, my ID was entered along with SSN and occupation so the only thing waiting was payment. The CSM whispers into the cashier’s ear and tells her to type on the screen, I hear the cashier say, “Can I still get to it from this screen”, then typing for a good 2-3 minutes before proceeding with the transaction.
This is where I’m guessing everything went wrong, I’m guessing that what happened was the CSM made her file an SAR against me.
After that I was still able to go to other WM locations up until yesterday where I went to my local MS friendly WM and the banner popped up saying, Please politely tell the customer we cannot proceed with their transaction. This store’s CSM came and looked very puzzled as they had never seen the message before. They said to call MoneyGram as it must’ve been on their end. I called them and was transferred around and was told by a supervisor that it was not them that they have no way to ask a merchant to stop a specific individual from purchasing Money Orders and that it would be on the merchant’s end.
So for now I’m stuck, I hope someone finds a way to appeal the bans as this is not really a fair situation.
Thanks for the info. At least we know who to contact now regarding the shutdowns. Maybe there’s a way to appeal to Walmart
Another forum I saw a WM associate said contact WM corporate headquarters in Bentonville.
If anyone finds a way to appeal please post!
What I am seeing is that it is the WM system tracking by DL data. The 8/24 has got me a couple times so I just go under $1k at that point. Thanks all for sharing your experiences.
Thank you for sharing. My contact at WM corporate told me a few weeks ago that this wasn’t a corporate ban. I guess that’s not the case anymore? Luckily I found out recently I’m not banned, but I’m sure the gravy train will stop at some point.
When did you think you were banned? Did you get the banner pop up saying to politely decline the transaction or…?
Thanks! Trying to figure things out right now. I’ll try another WM today.
I just assumed because all these other people who weren’t doing the same high numbers I was got banned. Plus, I’m sure cashiers have filed SAR reports on me – even if accidentally. Luckily I discovered I’m not banned.
Wow that’s lucky. One Cashier filed an SAR (or MCR) because she was upset the manager overrode her. Now I’m banned.
A friend who is a manager and who has worked at the Money Center for years advised me the ban may go away after an unknown period of time. He did say though that it is definitely by WM Corporate, not MoneyGram. If anyone knows a workaround or way to appeal it please post.
I have been shut down for about 3 weeks now. Either doing <$1k MO transactions at Walmart, or purchasing at my local Kroger store, which as it turns out is quite easy. I haven't done more than $2K in a transaction, but no ID required. I am grateful.
I am confident this ban is coming from Moneygram, who is getting pressure from the US Government. What we do with MS is also a strategy for money laundering and the government has clearly gotten better at following money transactions (i.e. Paul Manafort). Moneygram in turn has pushed new policies on WM. Since Walmart is a VERY large corporation with very tiered operations and a spaghetti string of technology, it is just taking time for the new rules to filter down through the corporation. They have likely started with the stores that have the larger MO transactions.
As Ariana has suggested, this hobby is a game of whack-a-mole. When one door closes, another one opens up. My recommendation is that everyone start finding other opportunities … and hopefully share them with us. Walmart for MS is dying. ;-(
IMO Walmart for MS has not been shut down or even in the process of it. I’ve been informed the shutdowns are from WM not MoneyGram. I know several people who do 240k a month via Walmart or more and are likely not to be shutdown.
IME the shutdown is related to an SAR being filed.
Personally I agree that criminals using Walmart to get MO’s hurts it for the rest of us. I find VGC’s to be much more secure and legitimate for buying MO’s than cash as to buy them Simon does not allow cash (no more than 2k) they require a CC or Debit Card linked to your name and ID and if getting more than 10k they require an SSN.
Although I’d imagine anyone buying MO’s at Walmart would strongly avoid having to give ID and definitely wouldn’t give SSN ($3,000.01+).
https://www.ft.com/content/42771a36-e396-11e8-a6e5-792428919cee
Shutdown today in Savannah, GA at WM. Last purchased $8k on Monday but today got the dreaded “Please inform your customer…” message. I started heavy MS starting early August with Simon $1k to spend my way to Hyatt Globalist. I had a very friendly spot but also went to some other WMs in the area and was doing a little under $50k/month the last couple months. Obviously hit it too hard but I’ll be Globalist when this month’s statement closes so it was worth it. I still plan on doing $25k per month but it will now take me a month to flip if I want to take it easy on myself. I have a few Krogers I can do $2k at and several WMs that I’ll do at 999.12. It was fun while it lasted!
Any new news on this? I’ve tried 4 different Walmart’s over a period of weeks with the same banner message telling them to decline it.
I am very small potatoes in this game being happy to pay my bills with Serve and Bluebird and a couple of money orders a month. Yesterday I took a big plunged and bought $9000. In Simon Mall cards. Went to Walmart and asked to buy a $1000. Moner order and they made me hand them my “debit” card and said they were no longer allowing debit cards. husband went to our friendly Walmart yesterday as well with a $200. Gift card and the register wouldn’t take it. This Walmart has been happily taking gift cards for reloads in the past. I’m not sure it has anything to do with us personally. Looks like the registers have now been coded not to take debit cards. Has anyone else successfully loaded luebird or Serve lately?
Thanks Betty. Do you mind sharing which state this happened in?
Loaded Serve today no issues and bought MO for $1k.
Many thanks for your reply. After reading it I went to my other Walmart that has been difficult and was able to load my Bluebird snd buy a Money Order. Will continue to try there but have actually been asked to leave that store once when after customer service refused to sell me a MO, they saw me at a register with my Bluebird. They were more than a little nasty.
They told you to leave, and you thought it was a good idea to go to another register. You’re lucky they didn’t call the police. Why not try the bluebird with the refusing people? They had good reason to throw you out!
Call the police? I wonder how that’d go. Officer she was trying to reload her Bluebird. The police would ask and she’d likely say she had been able to do it there many times before and thought perhaps the First Cashier just wasn’t trained on it properly. I agree it was wrong to go to another cashier the same day, but calling the police is laughable IMO.
It’s getting tougher and tougher. I say skip that store for a couple of months until they replace their staff. Turnover is high, so I’m sure you can go back at some point and find a more ms-friendly cashier.
Has anyone tried to buy >$1K in MOs with their ID who has been banned since mid-September? Was curious if over time heals wounds. Would like to be able to buy >$1K MOs again since buying 1 MO per transactions sucks right now. I would definitely slow down a bit if I can buy >$1K MOs and wouldn’t go past $3K/transaction.
Nope, been banned since mid-September and tried today no luck. Even had them manually enter it with a different address and still same message.
I think the minimum wait time for it to come off is 6 months. And even then it’s not guaranteed.
Interesting question. I’d also love to know if these bans might be temporary.
Got banned as well. And I believe it’s due an SAR in mid Oct. Only doing around $15K/mo but rather frequent. And the WM I go is the only one that allows GC for MO in my area. But it asks for ID regardless the amount if you are using GC.
Do you mind sharing which state you’re in?
What makes you suspect an SAR just curious?
I buy $399.12 money orders because of the 2 swipe limit imposed by my WM. Today, for the first time ever, I was asked for ID. The clerk said they were informed new rules would be coming. Yesterday, I bought a $799.12 one without issue.
Yup, just got banned here too – almost everyone I know who has been doing reasonable volume has been banned over the last few months. $1K at a time sucks.
I know plenty of people who do volume (at least 100k a month) and have not been banned. In my case a cashier submitted a suspicious activity report. That may have happened with you as well. It takes about a month for the report to be reviewed and applied.
Think back was there any transaction that took a few extra minutes? If so, it’s likely what happened. The cashier won’t tell you, they’ll just type on their screen for an extra minute or two than normal.
I wonder what the criteria is: Maybe people who got banned split their transactions between stores?
Everyone I know goes to 2 stores daily though and they do 100k+.
All it takes is one cashier who doesn’t like you for whatever reason even if it’s completely arbitrary. Unfortunately there’s no appeal process. WM insists its MG and vice versa too. It has to be on WM’s end because I’ve gone to other locations using MG without issues even with ID involved.
Had Driver’s license banned in September and Passport banned today. I was doing $8k/day with license, but scaled down to $4k/day using passport and still got banned. Are there any other forms of ID to use?
Your mistake was doing 4K which links your SSN. The same SSN that was connected to the banned ID, that and likely using the same address.
You can try getting an ID from another state which would have a different ID # and address. Definitely don’t do 4K transactions do 3k which requires no SSN.
They also accept Tribal ID’s and Military ID’s.
I think I’ll stop doing $4,000 immediately!
I know 3 other MSers in my area with banned DL who have done $4k twice a day on passport for over a year using their SSN everytime, no ban. Unfortunately I can’t get a Tribal or Military ID as I’m in neither
So using a passport works for some that were banned as a workaround? I was under the impression that it’s tied to name/DOB.
To me not worth the risk for an extra 2k personally but to each their own.
So, is there any way to rectify the banned situation? Anyone to call? If WM says it’s a MG issue and vice-versa, then what?……
Until mid March, when the stay-at-home was ordered in my state, I was able to do $2k each visit with 2 swipes, ID required of course. Stayed low for several weeks. When I returned to my WM last week, my usual $2k order could not be processed, $1k was okay. Guess the axe finally fell on me.
Here’s a DP for your info. License banned Feb 2019, Passport banned Oct 2019. I got a new passport Feb 2020. (New passports have new passport numbers). I had been hitting heavy on 1st passport ($8k/day @ multiple WM). When I received my new passport mid Feb 2020, I wanted to make sure I stayed “under the radar”. I only did ONE transaction of $3,000 no more than 4 times/week. My “new” passport got banned with in 30 days. My license is still banned. It’s been 15+ months
Thanks for the info. My License, Passport card and now Passport have all been axed! (Wow, your “new” passport didn’t even last 30 days!)
How are you using your passport? Does the pp# sub for the dr lic#? Or do you sub for ss#?